Ladies and gentlemen, this evening Bapak needs to explain what the committee members and helpers are supposed to do and how they should work, but first he would again like to explain the true meaning of Subud in our spiritual training. You have heard Bapak talk about the meaning of Subud many times, but now he will give a further, clearer explanation concerning the true meaning of Subud.

Subud embraces the meaning of the words Susila Budhi Dharma. Susila means the behavior of a person who has true human qualities; good, honest behavior that is in line with God's will for humanity. Budhi means that within his creatures, within human beings, there is the human force, or noble power, which guides them to become aware of their individuality. Dharma means not only surrendering to the greatness of God, but also following and enacting, with submission and a sincere, pure heart, all that God wills for us.

So, Subud in the true sense of the word is really difficult for you. It really isn't easy for you to possess. For, what God requires is that, once you possess it and are able to be truly aware of it, you become a human being who is an example to society. So, even though you are not filled with it or adjusted to it one hundred per cent, you very much need to behave, act and work in a way that is close to what Subud means. For it is only in that state, or with such a nature, that human beings can receive what they need. For God knows and will give human beings what they need, if they can use whatever they receive in the right way. Many of you have not found what you need, because God knows and understands that it is not yet the time for you to receive it. God has to give you a little at a time, and you should be grateful and glorify God's wisdom for giving to you in a way that does not harm you.

Bapak describes it like this: God will not give to people who ask God just because they are in a hurry, just to solve a problem, or just in order to make others consider them clever or something like that. For God does not like it if there is not a humane feeling among you; if you do not feel one with each other, value each other, love each other and help each other.

We already have many examples in the lives of the prophets of long ago - like Jesus Christ. Even though Jesus was condemned and blamed by others, he accepted it with patience and obedience to God, because God is the one who determines the life and destiny of human beings. This is what an excellent human being is like, and is symbolized by Jesus' inner nature. He did not profess his excellence or his high status, but felt the same as others. Nevertheless, people were aware of Jesus' fine character. It was not that he was able to captivate the hearts of other people - people loved him spontaneously. As recorded in his sayings, Jesus neither felt proud if people admired him, nor sad if people criticized him.

Indeed, that is the nature of a human being who is able to go through life while receiving the maximum amount of God's grace. It is like the proverb, which says: 'Fast flowing waters are shallow, but still waters run deep.' As it is in the proverb, so it is in human beings. Most people who say they are clever at this and clever at that, actually are not; whereas those who are quiet, who prefer to say nothing, are in fact the learned ones. Indeed, this is what people must have if they are to receive what they need for their life. The feeling of their heart needs to be patient, trusting and accepting, and also willing to let go.

Being patient means that you are not in a hurry to decide ( what you want ), because when you want something in a hurry, what you get will not actually be what you intended. Also, ( patience ) means that you do not get angry quickly; if you hear something that doesn't feel good, you are not easily influenced by the anger of the material world. Bapak takes the analogy of a house on fire. Of course, you have to hose it down with water - you don't hose a burning house with fire, for then the flames become even bigger. Similarly, if you hear something that within you - within your heart - does not feel good, don't take offence and respond in anger. If you do, it won't stop but will flare up and become worse. So, through Subud we become accustomed to being less easily affected by something that provokes anger. And if ( somebody around us ) is affected by anger, their anger will stop, because we are full of cool water inside, which is able to quench the raging fire.

Trusting acceptance means that we are willing and have the courage to let go of something that our heart likes, if God so wills. A symbol of this is Abraham's experience. He received a command from God to kill his son, Ishmael, who was born when Abraham was already old. Of course he loved this child very much. However, because of the command from God, which was to test the extent of Abraham's acceptance, Abraham, with a firm heart, was prepared to kill his son in accordance with God's will.

Now, a child, as you know, is a joy beyond the ordinary, for a child also represents your very soul and your very self. So, once a human being is able to let go of such a powerful pleasure of the heart, God will give that person whatever they deserve. Anyway, God knew it would not happen. For, after he had killed his son, there in front of Abraham was a sheep. It was not his son he'd killed but a sheep. Clearly, God is All-knowing and Wise; it was only to test how far Abraham was able to accept and entrust himself to God. A human being who is truly able to accept and trust, will not fall, but will receive what is best for them.

As an example, if someone wants to become rich, first he must have the courage to spend as much of his wealth or possessions as possible - the way people do in business - on advertising. For instance, Bapak has heard about those who are now selling Coca Cola. During the world war, they distributed Coca Cola just like that, without charge, to the soldiers who were fighting in the war. People thought it was simply charity. But once it was made available to everybody, people became accustomed to drinking Coca Cola. After the war, well, they just had to drink Coca Cola. However, now the war was over they had to buy it. So, before, they just gave it away, but later they made huge profits.

They say that if you want to be knowledgeable, first you have to get rid of what you know. So, if you want to know something and you want to learn something from others, but you are always debating with them and showing off your own knowledge, you cannot possibly get the knowledge you need. Similarly, you will never become a wealthy merchant if you don't have the courage to take a risk. So, if you want to trade and get rich, you must have the courage to risk a loss.

This also exists in the spiritual life. Our Subud latihan is a training for death, so we can experience life through death. Therefore we must have courage. If the latihan is a training for death - a training for meeting and being before God and for whatever God wills for us - then we must have the courage to die. However, it must not be the courage to die in the wrong way but when it is God's will for us. This is symbolized in the inner nature of Jesus. When he was crucified he surrendered to God with complete submission. That is how Jesus was when he faced his death. Whatever God willed for him, he submitted to God and let go. So in the end he did not die, but rather came to life and became blessed and noble in heaven.

That is the broad meaning contained in the words Susila Budhi Dharma. So it is clear that if you are really Subud, it means that you become an example to other people, an example to the world. In Islam they say that such a human being is hajib al-'alam ( Arab. ), which means an example to the world, an example of how to live in this world. So, when you leave this world, when you die, you will leave an excellent legacy for those who come after.

Bapak has given this broad explanation of Susila Budhi Dharma so you can be aware of it. It is clear that the truly human behavior of which Bapak has been speaking embraces all charitable activities that take care of human needs.

Now Bapak would like to go on to talk about the work the committee and helpers have to do. As he has already explained, the work of the committee comprises only worldly matters; in other words, the committee handles the administration of our Subud community. It should be clear that the work of the committee has to be in keeping and in line with the laws of the place where you live.

For the committee work, you need to appoint a chairperson and vice-chairperson, a secretary and deputy secretary, a treasurer and deputy treasurer, and assistants. The committee then organizes things and works in the normal way. Because it is normal among human beings in this world that if things are not organized, you are sure to end up with chaos, some organization is necessary. The secretary has the duty of writing and keeping records. The chairperson figures out what is the best thing to do in our community - we need to look for this, we need to look for that. And the treasurer receives funds and works on ways to bring in money. You need one or two people specifically for each of these tasks, to avoid duplication of work.

The helpers Bapak has appointed for the spiritual side may not, and should not, interfere in the affairs of the committee. The committee will procure chairs, and will think about whether it is necessary to provide coffee, tea and so forth; that is not the helpers' responsibility. So, the committee work only on worldly matters. For this reason there is a time limit of two years maximum and one year minimum, after which you choose again, from whoever is willing and able to work for the committee in Subud. )But) do not feel that those of you who sit on the committee will not need the spiritual ( side ). No. Besides the worldly tasks they have to perform, they continue to practice the worship of God.

As for those whom Bapak appointed as helpers: a helper in Subud is not a leader, or someone who has to give advice or show the way to others who are doing the latihan. No. They only need to be present at the latihan, so the latihan is orderly, otherwise people may be all over the place. They are there to keep order. Besides, how can the helpers give advice or show the way to others when they themselves have to be empty? To give guidance to others, human beings require their thinking. So how can they give correct guidance when their thinking minds need to be empty? When they accompany the members in the latihan, even though they are helpers, they need to worship God too. Everyone worships together. Then the helpers will not be the losers but will gain from it; because those they do latihan with will be able to receive what they need, and the helpers will be able to receive too.

Also, if a helper accompanying people in the latihan lets their attention go towards them, not only will the helper receive nothing from above, but the people doing latihan will be affected by the influence of the helper. There are still many helpers who have a lot on their minds and sometimes feel depressed, so if they are in front of someone who is doing latihan, and they direct their attention to that person, the latter feels confused and depressed too. Consequently, the helpers who accompany the members' latihan should, as far as possible, be clean, so as not to block those they accompany in the latihan.

This is symbolized in the lives of the prophets: nearly all -perhaps all- the prophets are represented as shepherds. This means that a prophet is simply a shepherd. He just follows the sheep as they look for food. When they have found some food, they eat, by themselves, what is in front of them. As for the symbol in this, the sheep are not really sheep; the prophets were not really shepherding sheep. No. The sheep are a symbol of the human heart, and indeed, · the human heart smells exactly like a sheep. ( Laughter ) So, the meaning of the prophets tending ( sheep ) is not that they really tended sheep, but that they tended people's hearts. Therefore all of you ( helpers ) should, as far as possible, become shepherds for the hearts of those you accompany in the latihan.

In Subud, we can take 'shepherd' to mean 'guide'. Bapak never claims and does not wish to claim that Bapak is a guru, that Bapak is a teacher, that Bapak is a leader. No. Bapak is just the guide for all of you. The only one who is your teacher, your guru and the one you worship, is God. So, if Bapak is in front or to the right or left of you in the latihan, he does not force you, or urge you, 'Come on, quickly, you can do it!' No. He just surrenders to God, and leaves it to God what God will give to the person whom Bapak is standing next to. So whoever is in front of Bapak, or who is near Bapak, or whom Bapak has moved close to, feels open, feels as if they are in a wide, open space.

As for the 'opening,' it is not really an opening in that sense. It's just that you have been ( doing the latihan ) longer than the new members, so within you there is a current, a channel of the powerful life force that exists within human beings. Bapak says channel, because your body becomes a channel of this high, strong, great life force within you. You need to know and be aware of this, so that you are careful with it. For, you might say, your body has become a target, an object of God's will. So if you wish for something that is wrong, it means you are using this gift that God gave you for something wrong. That is a big sin towards God. You must be careful. Do not act carelessly, just doing whatever you feel like; you must be careful. That's why Bapak says you need to receive first: 'Should I do that?'

If you can be careful and make good use of what God gives you in the way God wills, then certainly God will continue to give it to you because you have used it rightly. You used the gift as God willed it to be used. However, if God gives you something and you use it wrongly - you go against what God wills - of course you will be cut out, God will not give you any more. And it may be a long time before God gives you anything again.

It is the same as with ordinary work in the world. If you get a job and you do it very well, you are given a higher job. If you also do that job well, you will be given an even higher job. Of course, if someone gives you a higher job, you will also obtain a raise in salary. So, eventually, though you started small, you become an important person with a high position, because you were able to perform the work given to you by your boss. It is like that in the spiritual life too. If you do very well, really keep and obey God's commands, God will always give you something better, and higher and higher and higher, until you spontaneously become a noble creature in God's power.

This also applies when helpers give explanations to those who need them. That really is something not just difficult, but very difficult for all of you, because explanations that are still from the thinking and the heart are not right. If people follow them, they will not experience emptiness of the heart and mind, but instead the activity of their thinking and their heart will increase.

The secret of giving explanations to the members is - if he may say so - the way Bapak does it. Bapak is not by any means saying that he is right. However, when he gives you clarifications, there is no self interest in it for Bapak; it is really only in the interest of all of you. So, once you can be like that, and be free - free of self interest - then you may give explanations. However, most people are not like that. Generally, their self-interest enters into their explanation, so they influence the person they are addressing.

That is why Bapak's talks in different places are always different. Even if their intention is the same, they are always different, because they do not arise from Bapak's thinking or his heart. He simply receives what is willed from within for all of you.

So, Bapak hopes that when, as helpers, you need to give explanations to whoever asks, you will give explanations that are free of your heart and thinking. It is better to tell them what is in Bapak's talks, rather than to look for something else that might confuse the listeners. Unless you are already able to receive as Bapak has received, then, yes, you don't need anything else; you can give your own explanations, but free from the self-interest of your heart and mind.

Here Bapak needs to remind you that in the helpers' group there is no structure - no chairperson, vice-chairperson, and this and that - and nor should there be. No. In the helpers group, all serve equally and receive from God whatever God gives to each one of them. So, to decide something, you must receive, meaning you must test together and then see what results. This approach will avoid any misunderstanding arising from your hearts and thinking minds.

Bapak will illustrate how to test like this. Suppose you have some sugar, and there are ten of you: 'Come on. Let's all taste the sugar.' All right, you all taste it. Then one says... 'Sweet!' Another says, 'Sweet!' And another says, 'Mmm, sweet!' Certainly, all will say it is sweet. But if you were to try to work it out by thinking about it, then you may have thought to yourselves that you would say, 'Hey, if this sugar was made in China, then it won't taste sweet,' or, 'If this was made in England, it probably won't taste sweet either.' ( Laughter )

So, little by little, the helpers' group should be able to receive the reality, which each of them can receive within themselves. Once that is already clear, there is no further debate. But if they have not verified it through experience, then of course they will go on debating.

'You are wrong. I am right.'

'No, you are the one that's wrong. I am the one who is right.' However, if they experience it for themselves, then all are equal. There is no one who is right and no one who is wrong. This is how it should be, and must be, in the helpers' group. There is no chairperson, there is no deputy chairperson, everyone is equal. And together they each receive God's instructions within their being.

Also, what we get in the spiritual life is not something to show off to people. No. Because a diploma from God is not a diploma for this world. You can't use it to get a job. A diploma from God is only for God. God's will for human beings is that they should be honest, good, pure, and surrendered to God. So, you don't need to say, 'I am better ( than him ). He is not as good as I am,' or, 'Maybe she is better than that person.' No. God alone can measure such things. God is the one who knows. Take Bapak, for instance. Bapak has never said, and has no wish ever to say, that he is a reincarnation of the Buddha, or a reincarnation of Muhammad, or a reincarnation of a prophet. No. Bapak is, well, just Bapak. Yes, just Bapak Muhammad Subuh for as long as he lives. What there is within him is God's affair; that is a diploma from God, and not for this world. It is not for finding a job, because if Bapak looked for a job using his spiritual ( credentials ), nobody would give him one. ( Laughter )

So it is clear there is a separation of duties and work between the committee and the helpers' group. However, you haven't reached that point, because you're still new to it all. Bapak has said that only in three or four months time will there be regular helpers, consisting of those whom Bapak has appointed as committee members. As for the three or four months wait that Bapak is proposing to you, it's not that Bapak is forbidding ( you to accept ) new members who ask to be opened; it's just that this time is an opportunity for you to receive more. Meanwhile, during these three or four months, those of you on the committee will still do your committee work, working out the best form for the by-laws that you need here. Then, after three months, the committee members will become helpers, along with others whose progress is evident. So, the committee members are not the only ones who will become helpers. No. It may be that there are newer members who can already receive better than those who have been coming longer. In that case they can also be proposed and appointed as helpers.

Actually, being a helper is not pleasant - it is very unpleasant. It is nicer not to be a helper. Well, I mean, you just do the latihan and you're not affected by anything. Really, being a helper is not easy; one day you will experience this. Suppose you open someone who thinks about all kinds of things. Perhaps, if he has studied this or that, or followed this or that, there is also something inside the person. After the opening, you may be ill, not for just one or two nights, but for a week. Yes! That's how unpleasant it is to be a helper!

However, you are a bit different from the members in Indonesia. In Indonesia, if Bapak appoints someone: I’m making you a helper. 'They say, 'Please, not yet, Pak. Later, maybe next year!' Here, before Bapak has appointed anyone, you ask, 'May I be a helper?' ( Laughter ) And yet, well, Bapak feels proud too, because you really show your enthusiasm and your sincerity. The only thing is, you don't yet know what it is really like and what you will have to put up with as a helper. So Bapak hopes that later, when you feel unwell, you will not say, 'Ha, if it's like this, I don't want to be a helper any more!' No, don't say that! ( Bapak laughs )

Bapak will go on to say something about testing. Everywhere Bapak hears about the matter of testing he does with all the members. Actually that testing is the same as the testing you do among yourselves. Before doing the testing, it is necessary to empty yourself of everything. Bapak also does that in front of all of you, because when he tests with you, it's not Bapak who does the test. Bapak completely vanishes from everything that is within him; he surrenders it all to the greatness of God. In this way, you are able to receive what is said through the instrument that is Bapak's mouth. So, when he tests, this Bapak is just an instrument of God; this ( body ) is not Bapak's. No. It works by itself. Then, ( when he says ), 'How is your head?' Those words, 'How is your head?' come by themselves. Bapak is an instrument of God by which all of you can experience how far you are able to receive God's gift.

The evidence is in your latihan. In your latihan, you are not yet able to receive properly with your voice. You still go: 'Eo, o, ha, hi, heo, heo, eo.' How then could you test? Whereas Bapak is already used to it. Like this, for instance: ( Bapak sings a melody. ) Why, it comes by itself. Bapak did not compose it. No. You're not able to do that yet. You still go: 'Eok, heok, heok,' still, 'Uik, huik, uik.' It's still like that, so how would you be able to test?

Do not tell others something that you have not yet experienced yourselves. Do not teach others a technique for getting rich if you are not rich yourself. What's the point?

'Ladies and gentlemen, if you buy this and buy that, sell this and sell that, you'll be rich. I guarantee it)' 'What about you yourself ?' 'Oh, I'm not rich yet!' No one will believe you!

So, take care of your self first. Do not be in a hurry to give advice to others if you are not yet right yourself. One day, maybe you will not need to give advice. People may just look at you and say, 'Oh, I would like to be like you,' because the example is already there ( in you ). That is the way the prophets were. Jesus became an example to the world, hajib al - 'alam, as Bapak said earlier, because he was most refined in his walk and in his speech. Jesus really was a human being who was pure and obedient to God. So, he could say to people, 'You must obey God and be pure,' because ( he ) was already pure. In your case, you tell others, 'Be pure and obedient,' but when it comes to you: 'Just a minute, I am not pure yet.'

You really need to be aware of this. So Bapak will give you another example - an actual experience. Bapak is over here, at some distance from there ( where you are sitting ). He is away from you, but because he will be doing this, not from himself but due to the power of God, you will feel what Bapak does, like this, like that, within you. You may feel it in your chest, or in your whole body, or perhaps you will feel it in your vision, or in whichever part of you is able to receive it. See how it goes.

( Testing )

( For those of you who were not able to receive, it doesn't matter at all, all you need is patience; with patience it will all come to you and you will receive a lot from God. )

It's not that God loves people who are patient, but it's as if patience provides the way for human beings to receive what they need.

That is how Bapak does testing. It's really not difficult, but it is deep, so it's not easy for you to do just now. You should just listen and, little by little, verify the reality of the testing.

With this ( testing ), Bapak is just giving you some evidence that Subud is very wide, enabling that which people usually call worship of God to become one with your individuality. So: when I walk, I worship; when I wave my hand, I worship. When I speak, I worship; when I have a chat, I worship. When I buy and sell things, I worship. When I write, I worship. This ( hand ) writes by itself.

One day you will be able to comfort yourself, to comfort your-self whenever you need comforting. Everyone - nearly everyone -is subject to unhappiness, but if people worship God they can avoid it. Of course, Bapak gets troubled too, but it hardly touches him. For, if he is unhappy for whatever reason - Bapak does not know, maybe because of lack of money, or time, or something - then he walks and... ( Bapak sings ). 'How come Bapak is unhappy but he's singing?' ( Bapak sings again ) That's how he is when he's sad! The prophets, when they were downcast, did not show it. It's different with people these days. People today, when they are miserable: 'Oh, oh, oh' ( Bapak groans ).

( Section missing )

...everywhere there are songs. Not songs for having fun. No. This is how to relieve your sadness. For when people worship God, of course there is sadness. Their heart feels sad because they have left everything behind, but something within their being consoles them and makes them happy. So, obviously, someone who is close to the power of God, someone who has obtained God's protection and whom God has blessed, does not look like this ( Bapak demonstrates ). No. Such a person looks better than normal, which means they are good inside and outside; their soul is good and their body is good - truly healthy and radiant. Someone who really has met God does not have a walk like this ( Bapak demonstrates ). It cannot be! How can someone who has met God have a walk like that? Impossible! Someone who knows God must have a fine walk.

It seems that Bapak has talked enough for tonight about how committee members and helpers should work. Bapak just suggests that if, during the next three or four months, any new people come, don't open them yet. Wait the three or four months. This is necessary so your body can receive more. Do not be in a hurry to assist other people, or give to others, when you have not yet received anything.

Bapak will be away for about ten days. Is that right? Yes. In ten days time he will return here. By then there may be some people who need to be opened, and, well, Bapak will open them - because that is Bapak. As Bapak said just now, he feels compassion for you, and does not want you to give more than you receive; but with Bapak it is different. So, if when Bapak comes back here in ten days time there are two hundred asking to be opened, well, he will open them while he is here. As Bapak said, the three or four months are meant for you; you are not yet ready for ( doing openings ), and Bapak feels you should not do any for the time being. Therefore he will give you the right to open people after three or four months.

About the way to do openings in three months time: well, suppose there are four people to be opened, and there are twenty of you in the helpers' group, it is enough if two of you do the opening. So, not all of you open them, because today you might open five, tomorrow or the day after, you might have to open another five. So, take turns, two at a time, so you all have an equal share and you don't overload A or B; you all share in carrying the load.

And for the way to receive whether you may open someone or not: you should test together with as many ( helpers ) as there are. If you all receive that it's good to accept and open someone, then go ahead and open the person. So, Bapak leaves it to you to test about new people.

As for the way to accompany ( the members' latihan ), if there are three or four latihan times, share them out among the helpers. If all the helpers are there all the time it might fill up the place; moreover, it would be too hard for you. Say there are three latihans, or if necessary, four latihans, then, if there are a lot of members -say two hundred - the helpers divide up. Some go to the first latihan, some to the second, some to the third and some to the fourth. In this way we can preserve our strength. Do not take on too much or you may collapse, and Bapak would be very sorry if that happened. Suppose there are two hundred members a night, and there are four latihan times: there are twenty helpers; divide by four and that makes five, five, five and five. Not too many ( in each latihan ).

This is Bapak's explanation about the duties of the committee members and helpers. Now Bapak invites you to ask anything you like - as long as you don't ask about money! ( Laughter )

( Question Inaudible )

( Interpretation ) Who should give explanations about Subud to people before they are opened?

( Bapak ) Oh, yes, I forgot about that. Bapak will explain about that.

The helpers give the explanations, not the committee. And the helpers give explanations according to what is in Subud. Don't give explanations from outside Subud. It is better, if necessary, to take explanations from Bapak's talks, because before becoming Subud members, people generally ask things like: 'What is the meaning of Subud? What is its aim? Is Subud a religion? Does Subud conflict with religion?' You should explain all these things according to what there is in Bapak's talks.

( Question Inaudible )

( Interpretation ) Should all the helpers be together to talk to people who want to be opened?

( Bapak ) No. A quarter of them is enough. As long as their answering is not from themselves, it will certainly be the same as what the others would say.

( Question Inaudible )

( Interpretation ) Do all the helpers test to decide whether they can open someone or not?

( Bapak ) Oh yes.

( Interpreter ) All of them?

( Bapak ) All who are there. But generally, when someone has waited three months it's all right, because three months gives a person time. Someone who just comes out of curiosity would not have the patience to wait three months. So, if someone waits three months and really stays with it, it means they are serious.

( Interpreter ) Can everyone be opened after three months?

( Bapak ) If they have completed the three months, yes they can. However, if ( for some reason ) they need to be opened before the three months are over, you should test.

( Question ) Do I understand that at the end of the three months all the helpers here will be qualified to open as helpers or just the committee members?

( Bapak ) No, those appointed to the committee will not be enough. So Bapak is nominating more than those on the committee; that is, all of you.

( Two questions, about opening people who are ill and about elderly people, are answered by the interpreters, who explain the categories of people who may be opened without waiting three months. )

( Question ) Suppose someone has a mental problem, and they want to be opened; this can be very dangerous in the long term. Interpretation: Should they open a person who has a mental illness, straight away? It could be dangerous for those who do the opening?

( Bapak ) You have to test whether it is dangerous or not. If the answer is: 'Yes it is dangerous', then you should let the person wait until they become calm first.

( Question Inaudible )

( Interpretation ) If they ask someone with a mental illness to wait three months, but after the three months they are still unsure whether to open the person or not, can they extend the time of waiting?

( Bapak ) Yes, certainly they can, because it may be dangerous for the helpers.

( Question ) If a woman is opened, can her husband be opened without waiting?

( Interpretation ) If a woman has already been opened, can her husband be opened right away?

( Bapak ) No.

( Laughter and discussion )

( Question ) Don't we have a problem in this country as to the age? Shouldn't it be twenty one? Isn't that the age of majority, not eighteen?

( Interpreter ) ( Interprets, then adds... ) Wouldn't it be better to bring it into line?

( Bapak ) Yes, of course you can. That's why Bapak leaves it to you to make the rules according to the laws that apply locally.

( There is an animated discussion on this subject. )

( Question Inaudible )

( Interpreter ) When helpers give explanations, should women give explanations to women?

( Bapak ) Oh, no, no, no, no. Man by man, woman by woman. When it's a woman who asks, a woman must give the explanations.

( Question ) Could Bapak please explain the difference between a helper and an opener?

( Interpreter To Bapak ) Many people do not understand that a helper is also an opener. They think helpers only help and openers only open.

( Bapak ) No, no. The helpers also do the openings.

( There is a discussion about the candidate helpers, who Bapak had said may not open anyone for three months. )

( Question Inaudible )

( Interpreter ) Later on, when these people have become helpers, who can propose others to become candidate helpers?

( Bapak ) Those who are helpers become advisers and may propose whoever they consider able to become helpers. Bapak will explain something now. Really, when Bapak is appointing helpers here, it is just to speed things up. So Bapak's appointments are an emergency measure, because America is a long way from Indonesia. When Bapak appoints helpers in Indonesia they have been doing the latihan, on average, for at least, five or six years. Bapak has appointed these people now because of the urgent need to create order, or a framework. So then, if after three or four months you become helpers and you see others whose latihan is like this or like that, do not ( just ) propose them. Otherwise, if there are a hundred in Subud here, all hundred will be helpers. Then who will there be for you to attend in the latihan? Who will there be to accompany? Everyone will be accompanying everyone else!

( Interpreter ) Yes, but for instance, Pak, once they have proposed names, do those proposed become candidate helpers - or helpers straight away?

( Bapak ) ( They become ) candidates first.

( Interpreter ) For how long?

( Bapak ) Well, it won't be like the earlier ones. So, maybe six months.

( Question ) Since all of us are really not fit to be helpers, is it possible that we could get someone from Indonesia who really is a helper, who is strong enough... ( inaudible )?

( Bapak ) Well, Bapak will have to discuss that with the people there, because there is someone - but he has ten children. ( Laughter )

Question: ( Inaudible )

( Interpreter ) He says, Pak, suppose there is someone with a mental illness, and after three months some of the helpers feel they may open the person. However, later, when they test, many of them still feel unsure.

( Bapak ) Not yet.

( Interpreter ) Yes, well, I answered that if more than half the helpers receive the answer 'yes,' they may open the person.

( Bapak ) Yes, and after they receive the answer that the person may be opened, they all have to agree to be responsible for what happens to that person.

( Question Inaudible )

( Interpreter ) While there are no real helpers, and they are all on the committee, who decides how long and how many times a week people do the latihan? Also, who decides the times of the latihans, how many people are in a latihan, and things like that?

( Bapak ) Well, Bapak has already decided this. Now that Subud is here and the committee has been formed, the rules apply. As Bapak has said, one rule that applies is that people should not do latihan more than three times a week. As for the way you conduct the latihan - for the time being the candidate helpers Bapak has appointed can accompany ( the members ) in the latihan.

( Interpreter ) But now they are on the committee.

( Bapak ) The committee, too. Right now it is still mixed. For three months the work of the committee and candidate helpers is combined, with no separation ( between them ). However, later - in three or four months - there will automatically be a separation. Only then will the work be done as it should be. So, at present, the committee still combines ( its work with ) the work of accompanying the latihan. But they cannot do openings; for the time being they just accompany the latihan.

And as for doing latihan alone at home, there is also a way to do that. Those who ask to do latihan alone may not do so if they cannot yet stop ( the latihan ) by themselves. The committee and candidate helpers certainly need to consider this. Also, some have asked whether it is all right to do latihan at home alone with one's wife. It is, but you may not do it together in one room. You must take turns.

( Question ) If we find a problem absolutely ( inaudible ), such as has been brought to my attention, where someone who is not of this group and is not a helper, takes it upon themselves to instruct other people - to tell people when they are to do latihan, to give them permission to do latihan alone, to do all sorts of things - what can we do? Can we do anything? Should we try to do anything? And if so, is it the work of the committee? Is it the work of the helpers as a whole? What do you recommend?

( Bapak ) It should be the helpers. However, since the helpers are still combined with the committee at present, the committee-cum-helpers must speak to the person.

( Interpreter ) What can they do about that person if he does not want to listen? What is Bapak's advice?

( Bapak ) Just forbid him. He must not do it.

( Interpreter ) Yes, but supposing he does not want to hear?

( Bapak ) If he does not want to listen, tell the people he talks to not to believe him. If he insists on opening people on his own, it means those people :have not yet joined Subud. ( Something similar happened ) in Australia too! ( Laughter )

If people in a remote place, where there is no branch, want to be opened, you can send one or two helpers there - with the agreement of all the helpers. Also, as sometimes happens, helpers may move to another place because of their job. If someone there wishes to join Subud, and the helper opens them, he or she must inform the helpers back in the place they ( originally ) came from.

( Question ) Bapak left it a bit vague about when people can do latihan by themselves. How are we to make the decision about this?

( Interpreter ) All the helpers have to do it by testing.

( Question ) We do that for each individual?

( Interpreter ) Yes.

( Interpreter To Bapak ) Suppose there are four hundred people. Should they test each person individually to decide who may do latihan alone?

( Bapak ) Four hundred what?

( Interpreter ) People, doing the latihan. If they ask, 'May I do the latihan alone?' how do they answer? Do they test each person?

( Bapak ) Whether they may do latihan at home?

( Interpreter ) Yes. Bapak: Yes, that's it. The helpers may test. Also, if you allow a number of people to do latihan alone at home, you should watch that everyone does not just do the latihan in their homes. Then there would be no group or association any more. People may only do latihan at home if they have already done two group latihans ( in a week ).You may only do latihan at home once, at the most twice, a week. So, do not allow people always to do latihan at home and never come here.

( Question Inaudible )

( Interpreter ) This person said she came this morning from Connecticut. ( Inaudible ) ...miles from here. They have their own house. Should they still keep coming here or...?

( Bapak ) Is there a branch there?

( Interpreter ) There are five helpers here from Connecticut. Bapak: There is not a branch yet?

( Interpreter ) Not yet. May they establish a branch?

( Bapak ) Yes, of course they may. Just like in London...

( Question Inaudible )

( Interpreter ) The question is like this: Bapak said that the people whom they agree to open must have waited three months. Otherwise, they have to test, but most of them do not know how to test or what to test. How do they do it?

( Bapak ) Bapak said earlier that the way to test is like doing the latihan. You let go of everything and surrender to God. Before that there has to be ( a question ), for instance, about this person. Then the answer comes in the latihan. And if you cannot do that yet, then there can be no exceptions ( to the three months rule ).

( Laughter )