John Bennett: ( Beginning not recorded ) ...Are we right in understanding that this means the center of spiritual activities is always where Bapak is, but the center of the administration should be where it is most convenient, and that this will have to remain in one place? In other words, are we to understand that the division of the spiritual and the administrative sides applies to the whole world activity of Subud, as well as in different countries?

We wish to ask one question connected with the spiritual side and two connected with the administrative side:

The earth is divided into continents, and mankind is divided into races. Can we suppose that it is the will of God that all continents and all races will make their own contribution to the regeneration of humanity by way of Subud? If so, can we expect that men of high spiritual qualities, such as men of the roh rohani, will appear in the world in different places and become helpers in the true sense for the people of the different continents and races? Will Bapak in this way have real helpers chosen by God to help him in his work and make it unnecessary for him to travel from country to country?

The first question on the administrative side concerns the establishment of a minimum international organization to meet needs that have already arisen. It seems to be generally agreed that there is a need for an international register of all Subud centers and groups all over the world; firstly in order to verify what is properly authorized by Bapak, and secondly to help those who travel from country to country to get in touch with local Subud centers.

The second question on the administrative side concerns centers in different continents. Dr. Ruzo has suggested that a center for all South America might be established in Brazil. The North American continent has chosen New York as a provisional center. Does Bapak wish us to study such possibilities for the different continents?

Bapak: Ladies and gentlemen, Chairpersons of Sections, especially of the International Section: in actual fact, when the first ( Subud ) Congress was held some time ago, an organization was formed, which at that time only covered Indonesia. Consequently, the statutes and by-laws drawn up were formed to meet the laws and conditions obtaining in Indonesia.

Although Bapak had already received indications that eventually he would go outside Indonesia and travel round the world, as a human being, considering his own financial position, he felt it would be impossible to undertake such a journey, for it would be very expensive and Bapak was not very well off. He had enough to live normally, he had enough to eat; but to travel round the world at a cost of thousands of rupiah or thousands of dollars was simply out of the question. So, Bapak created a provisional organization to meet the needs in Indonesia, without taking other countries into consideration. However, when it became apparent that what God had indicated to Bapak would come to pass, and that he was really going to undertake the journey round the world, with all the expense that would involve, it all came about perfectly easily. So, it is now necessary to change the statutes and by-laws so as to correspond to the needs of the people of the ( whole ) world.

With regard to the place of the spiritual center: as the spiritual is in the hands of God, and God has power not only over this world but also beyond this world, so too the spiritual center envelops the whole world and does not reside in one or two places. The spiritual is at home in the whole world. In the spiritual aspects of the work, Bapak feels just the same wherever he may be, whether in Indonesia, England, Asia or anywhere else. As for his own feelings: since a man's heart will wish to be near to his wife and children and family, Bapak would feel that Indonesia is the place for him. But for Bapak himself, all places are the same, so that he could eventually live in New Zealand, Australia, America or anywhere else. Therefore, the management or center for spiritual activities is the place where Bapak happens to be at the time. For instance, now that Bapak is here in London, London is the spiritual headquarters. If he is in America, then the spiritual headquarters is there, because all spiritual matters are usually referred to Bapak wherever he happens to be.

However, the administration or the organization should be located in specific places considered suitable as centers for the surrounding countries. For example, the administrative center for the United States can be in New York, and for South America it can be in Brazil - if this is acceptable to the members. But, since South America consists of a number of countries, such as Brazil, Peru, Chile, Argentina and so on, if they each wish to have a center in their own country, this has the advantage that each country will be free to do ( what they want ).

An example of this is the organization of political parties - this is merely by way of illustration, for Subud is not a party - for instance, the Social Democratic Party. Although they have the same ideology all over the world, they have their own administration in each country. It's the same way in Subud. Our ideology, meaning the worship of the One God, is one; one rule, one path, but the administration must conform to the requirements in each place. For example, the United States needs an administration corresponding to the conditions of the United States; South American ( countries ) need an administration corresponding to their conditions and laws. It is the same here in England, where the administration must be arranged so it will not conflict with the laws and customs of this country. The same applies everywhere.

You of course understand better than Bapak that in the administration and organization, there are areas where the countries can co-operate; these include the publication of periodicals and the registration of membership. An exception is finance, where it may not be possible to have co-operation between countries, as this concerns each country's own economy. You yourselves will be more expert at organizing this, and understand it better than Bapak, for it has to do with worldly matters.

As to the division of the work itself.' the duty of those whom Bapak has appointed as helpers is just to open others and accompany them in the latihan; they can also occasionally give advice to the committee on the best way to do their work. Not only do they have the task of exercising their function in their own area, but can also visit other places in the same capacity. As helpers they can open and do latihan with others anywhere in the world where they may be needed. If helpers from England, for instance, were required to go to Indonesia to give assistance there, to guide and accompany the members there, this could happen. On the other hand, helpers from Indonesia can also open and do latihan with others here or in America. But those whom Bapak has appointed to lead the administration are responsible only for their own areas.

The general latihans should be arranged as they are in Indonesia, where they are done only twice a week. In addition there is a latihan once a week for helpers only.

Brothers and sisters, it is quite sufficient to have a general latihan twice a week. You can eventually add a third latihan on your own at home, once you are aware of the time - that is, when you are able to stop by yourself after half an hour, or perhaps a little longer. So you can do the latihan three times a week; once alone at home and twice with the group. Bapak considers this number of latihans is quite sufficient, for you should understand that the latihan requires the stopping of our desires and thinking mind. To stop your thinking and your desires just for half an hour a week is already very difficult; for the thinking and the desires it is really too hard. If you do too much latihan, then your thoughts and desires will be oppressed, and this may to lead to a state of crisis. That's how it is.

So that you should not experience a crisis, and in order that your receiving should proceed gradually but steadily, you should do latihan without being in a hurry, without forcing yourself. Therefore Bapak considers it quite enough to attend the general latihans twice a week and to do one on your own. The helpers should do latihan together once a week; but on that occasion they shouldn't just do latihan, they should also spend some time practicing how to test, understand, and correct their being; ( to feel ) how far they have got and what they have received.

The reason why it is necessary for the helpers to do latihan and test, is so that each can gradually learn to see how things are with their soul. Has it changed or not? Is the still unchanged soul continuing to exert pressure on them? Or is the pressure less? Also, by this means they will become able to answer the various questions asked by the members.

Brothers and sisters, Bapak explains that the appointment of helpers here - outside Indonesia - is an emergency measure, in order to save time. You can work it out for yourselves: if Bapak had to come here every time there was an opening, or if someone from Indonesia had to come, it would cost lots of money. It would make it impossible for Subud to spread quickly, in view of the time and expense involved. So Bapak considers it necessary to appoint helpers here, outside Indonesia, as long as they are able to some extent, to receive what is received in the latihan. Because it is not necessary to have attained a high level in order to open others and do latihan with them; it is quite enough if they have become a channel for the powerful life force to flow through them.

Things are different now from those former times Bapak was speaking about last night, when the prophets gave advice to humankind, and when their disciples, through teaching, were able to spread their religion. For indeed in those days it was enough to reach the stage of belief it was different from today. People no longer believe - they need proof. And it is Subud that can now give people proof, but it can't be done just through talking. It needs to be experienced; it requires guidance; it requires transmission of the contact. You need to accompany them and you need to get close to them. It's not possible to do it the way it used to be done, when one person could preach to many - as many as ten thousand in one evening. In Subud that is impossible. You will not be able to open ten thousand people in one evening; it's not possible. The most is four, five, maybe ten, because passing on the contact to those being opened is truly heavy. Those of you who have opened and accompanied new members have experienced this yourselves.

That is why Bapak needs to appoint many of you in each group to function on the spiritual side as helpers. Considering the large number of people outside Subud who wish to be opened and follow Subud, many helpers are needed. That is why Bapak has appointed as many as possible, although they do not yet fulfil the requirements of helpers. But Bapak feels that they are already capable of transmitting the higher power to those who wish to be opened. That is why Bapak recommends to helpers to do latihan diligently with their colleagues - meaning with other helpers. This is necessary so that they receive a lot and can truly feel, so eventually they can answer the members' questions easily and correctly.

With regard to the hopes of those who would like to know whether there are people with rohani souls who could join Subud and help Bapak, his answer is that maybe it won't be necessary, because you who are in Subud will later reach that level. Why is that? It's because it is God's will that real helpers for people - for humankind - will eventually come from Subud. God Himself will guide you and lead you, so you can reach that level.

If there really are people outside Subud who have rohani souls, these people are guided only by God Himself they will know one unity, and that is unity with God Himself. Therefore they will know about everything in this world, and know whether it is by God's will or not. So we won't need to look for them, they will certainly come of themselves, commanded by God, whose command they will see and receive, For God is one for all His creatures.

What Bapak has experienced has been that quite a number of people have come to him who claim really to have met God and to know Him very well indeed. These people ask eventually 'Is it true, Bapak, that that happened to me?'

'What do you mean? If you really know God so well and are in close contact with Him, you certainly do not need to ask Bapak about that, for Bapak is merely an instrument of God. God knows better. God will show you what is right and what is wrong in what you receive - why ask Bapak?'

So, it is clear there are many people who claim from their minds to have known the power of God, and they may also claim to have a soul on the level of rohani, rahmani, rabbani, or even to be the same as God. Maybe. But the fact is that if they have achieved an excellent soul like the rohani or higher, they will of themselves know what Subud is. We don't need to look for them - they will come of themselves. God will have revealed it to them, and they will be able to explain the details of Subud and of what Bapak has received.

To give you proof, Bapak will interrupt his explanation for a moment. He would like you all to receive this test in order to experience the reality to a certain extent.

( Testing )

Therefore Bapak has received - it is not Bapak's opinion this time, but his receiving - that it is unnecessary to look for people with this or that soul. In fact it is wrong, because inevitably we will be looking for them with our thinking. If we really want to find them - leave it to God. God will give them indications and they will come to us of themselves. Therefore Bapak only hopes that God may permit it and give His blessing, and - it could really happen - that they will come from among yourselves.

This is the end of Bapak's answers and some explanation about Subud for all of you, and he says thank you.